Proposition 8 – Marriage Equality. Don’t Worry, California Schools Won’t Teach Your Kids Anything.
October 22, 2008 by Johnny California
Filed under Ballot Propositions
Proposition 8 is the one that everyone has heard of. Last May, The California Supreme Court legalized same sex marriage. Prop. 8 asks voters to approve an amendment to the California constitution which would undo the court decision and outlaw same sex marriages.
There’s nothing really more complicated than that about Prop. 8. It’s pretty straight-forward. However, we would like to address the education issue.
Supporters of Prop. 8 claim that if same sex marriage remains legal, California public schools will be required to teach students about same sex marriage. Prop. 8 supporters are not claiming that the language of Prop. 8 itself would require California schools to teach children about same-sex marriage. Everyone agrees that Prop. 8 has nothing to do with education. However, the Yes-On-8 campaign claims that there are two sections of the California Education Code which would require same sex marriage to be taught in public schools. Opponents of Prop. 8 refute this claim.
We researched the California Education Code, we read credible legal opinions on both sides of the argument and then we watched the campaign ads, here is our assessment of the situation:
Under the California Education Code, public schools are under “local control” when it comes to many curriculum choices. One of the locally-decided curriculum choices is whether to teach sex education (Cal. Ed. Code 51933). If the local school district decides to teach sex education, then and only then, the “instruction and materials shall teach respect for marriage and committed relationships” (Cal Ed. Code 51933(a)(7)).
Also, if a local district does decide to teach sex ed, a “parent or guardian of a pupil has the right to excuse their child from all or part of comprehensive sexual health education” (Cal Ed. code 51938).
Bottom line: Schools are only required to talk about marriage if they decide to teach sex ed. Could same-sex marriage come up in the context of sexual education? Yes, but schools are required to tell parents that they’re teaching sex ed and need to disclose exactly what they’re teaching. (Cal Ed. code 51938). If same-sex marriage is part of that curriculum, parents have the right to exclude their child from those classes.
There is one other section of the Education Code that mentions marriage. It’s an obscure part of the code called the Comprehensive Health Education Act of 1977 (“CHEA”) (Cal Ed. Code 51800 et seq), It’s initial purpose was to teach kids about drug abuse (Cal. Ed. Code 15801) This code gives a long list of topics that are supposed to be covered in the CHEA, one of the topics is “Family health and child development, including the legal and financial aspects and responsibilities of marriage and parenthood.”
By all accounts, the reason the marriage line is in the CHEA is so kids would learn that if they spent all their money on angel dust or ludes or whatever other awful 1970s drugs they could find, they would be too wasted and broke to support their family. It is not exactly an in-depth discussion of marriage. The Yes-On-8 people are really misleading the public on this one.
Also, the curriculum for the CHEA has been locked in for years, so obviously same-sex marriage is not a part of it. Same-sex marriage will not become part of the CHEA unless the local community wants it to: “No plan [for the CHEA curriculum] shall be approved by the State Board of Education unless it determines that the plan was developed with the active cooperation of parents, community, and teachers, in all stages of planning, approval, and implementation of the plan.” (Cal Ed. Code 51914).
But what about that TV commercial that talks about courts requiring same sex marriage be taught in Massachusetts schools whether parents wanted it or not? That court case was a federal decision based on Massachusetts law. California’s Education Code is completely different, that court case is not relevant to any of the issues here. Even if it were, California state courts and California federal courts are not bound by the decisions of a federal court in Massachusetts.
Finally, as a practical matter, the California Superintendent of Schools is on TV ads every 30 seconds telling people that “marriage is not required to be taught in schools.” In this Sacramento Bee article a California State School Boards Association plainly says “Proposition 8 will not impact public education.” There’s zillions of articles and TV footage of education officials saying that Prop. 8 won’t change the current education structure. Does anybody really believe that if Prop. 8 fails, all these school officials are going to show up for work on November 5 and tell everyone they were yanking our chain? They would all be fired immediately.
Here is what we believe will happen if Prop. 8 fails: There’s no way that the California Department of Education will require gay marriage to be taught in public schools unless there is overwhelming local community demand that it be taught. Even if there is overwhelming community demand, parents who do not want their children to participate, whether it be through Sex Ed or the CHEA, will have the right to “opt-out”, meaning their children will not be required to participate.
As to the larger same sex marriage issue, we here at Johnny California do not particularly care who marries who. More importantly, we here at Johnny California do not believe in amending the state constitution to take away people’s civil rights, which is exactly what Prop. 8 asks voters to do.
The Johnny California Editorial Board recommends a NO vote on Prop. 8
Also see Related Posts:
Proposition 8 – Like We Said, Don’t Worry Your Kids Aren’t Learning Anything At All.
Proposition 8: Stop The Anti-Mormon Fear-a-Thon. We Don’t Want to Win This Way.
I think that it would be a very bad idea to teach children about a political view of homosexuality since homosexuality is a very bad thing in the first place. There is no need to encourage it.
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Jill Reply:
October 29th, 2008 at 1:32 am
‘wot’ – Did you NOT read the above article??? Schools are absolutely NOT going to ‘encourage’ gay marriage! They shouldn’t be encouraging ANY kind of marriage at that age, anyway. Look, it’s your opinion, as ignorant as I believe it to be, that homosexuality is ‘bad’. Your kids will (or have) grow(n) up with that same prejudice no matter what they hear at school. Parents pass on their ignorance and hatred, so don’t worry. Chances are, they’ll think just like you.
That is, until they find out later on that the 10th grade english teacher they totally idolized has been in a same-sex relationship for years and – GASP – is actually a good and decent member of society. Or find that they themselves might be dealing with feelings towards a person who happens to be of the same sex – (10%, it could happen). Hopefully then, they will start to question their parent’s intolerance of others not like themselves, and actually open their eyes to the reality that gay people have always been around and always will be and have been treated unfairly like second-class citizens just like blacks and women once were in this country, and how wrong it is to amend a constitution to take away civil rights – never in our history has our constitution been amended to LIMIT civil rights – only to expand them. It’s called evolving as a society to insure that ALL of our citizens are truly equal, not ’separate but equal’, but EQUAL.
Voting NO ON PROP 8 will only affect your kids if one of them grows up to be lucky enough to be in a committed loving relationship and wants to marry the person they love with all their heart. If you vote ‘yes’, and your child is in love with someone of the same sex, you are telling your kid that he or she should be treated like a second class citizen and should NOT have the same rights and protections you have.
Would you really do that?
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Shannon Reply:
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:05 am
Amen!
Teens of this generation are becoming more open-minded
im proof
but i grew up with liberal parents, accepting
though my friend has very conservative parents and she herself is accepting of homosexuals
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Krystal Reply:
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:04 pm
“wot”….are you severely inept of processing the information that you come across?
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This is not true…..there are holes all over the various districts….and it will all boil down to teaching “tolerance”…..and then there will be stories with gay parents introduced in the reading curriculum, and various other ways that same sex marriage will be introduced. It won’t be necessarily “taught”…but it will be in the curriculum and parents will not have the right to do anything about it because it will be part of curriculum and not a special unit. Schools teach about the family unit in KINDERGARTEN…..so you tell me….how will that be approached? You bet it will be introduced in school…..
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Felisha Davis Reply:
December 10th, 2009 at 4:35 am
They teach about family in kindergarten, yes, but they do not teach marriage! Why would they all of a sudden start teaching little kindergartners about same-sex marriage? They wouldn’t!
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Here, here!! Thank you.
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Tracy J., you just blasted yourself as “intolerant”. “Tolerance” is a must in our public school systems, in the same way that the news media is under a societal obligation to remain bipartisan when reporting political news, and those administering our laws are required to administer “blind” justice, so the educational environment that our children are taught in be “tolerant”. Tolerance allows for the fair treatment of all individuals, regardless of their race, ethnic origin, gender, socio-economic status, sexual orientation, I.Q., athletic ability, etc. Requiring a constitutional admendment that requires discrimination against an entire group of people teaches “intolerance”, and you didn’t need to schools to do that; the fact that Prop. 8 even exists is enough to put doubt in the minds of children that every American ha the right to be treated with the same dignity and respect as his neighbor.
The atmosphere of “tolerance” allows for children with special needs, such as Trig Palin (son of the over-glorified Sarah Palin) to be educated in the same setting and with the same standards as children without special needs. So when you go around preaching that “all this will do is boil down to teaching “tolerance”, remember what teaching and allowing “intolerance” will ultimately lead to. There was once a time when children, like Trig, would be sent to an institution, or just kept at home, because they are different. What a difference “tolerance” has made!
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So if this is the case why was my niece in kindergarten and Carlton elementary in San Jose California read a book and taught a song about “You have two mommies, I have two daddies…” without notification of the parents or opportunity to opt out. Certainly this wasn’t “health education” or “chea” for kindergarteners? – - – Or is the response that “it can be taught as long as it’s not in the sex education curriculum.” This sounds an awful lot like what happened in Massachusetts doesn’t it? How do I go about opting my child out of the teaching same sex marriage/relationships in the “general curriculum?” If I can’t do that, it’s as good as “required”.
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Johnny California Reply:
October 29th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
please see here for reply: http://johnnycalifornia.com/?p=664
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I said nothing about being tolerant or not…I just stated that the school district will use tolerance as their in…..if this is really about “TOLERANCE” why are my yes on 8 signs being slashed and stolen every night? Why is my freedom of speech being taken away? How tolerant is that? You talk about disabilities and tolerance of disabled people….you can’t compare a choice…a lifestyle choice….over the way someone was born. You can’t make someone who is black be a different color, you can’t make a disabled child healthy….but you can make a choice of whether you choose to be gay or not. Proposition 8 is about preserving traditional marriage and religious freedom. We are not about taking away civil rights or intolerance. Get educated and don’t you dare compare this issue to a disability. I am so offended by your comments you have no idea!
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Sadio Woods Reply:
October 29th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Ma’am, I really could care less about how offended you are at my comments. Just as I am sure you could care less how offended I am that in 2008 someone could be so ignorant as to suggest that a person’s sexual orientation is a choice.
“Preserving traditional marriage and religious freedom” huh?
-I’m sorry. I fail to realize how the choice of two people whom you don’t know or have anything to do with impacts your ability to attend the religious services of your choice, chose which religion to go along with, pray (or not pray) to whichever god you choose, etc. Please help me understand how discriminating against a group of Americans is going to “suddenly allow” you to exercise your personal religious beliefs in a way that you have not previously been allowed to?
-Preserving traditional marriage. Are you married? Please explain for me how the marriage of two people who have nothing to do with you is going to lawfully nullify your marriage certificate? How is their marriage going to lawfully change the spousal benefits that you receive through your work, notifications that you would receive if something happened to your spouse, your ability to ride in the ambulance if something happened to your husband, or your ability to make medical decision for your spouse should he be incapacitated? I mean seriously, please explain these things to me, because as far as I know, allowing gay people to marry each other does not change one single thing, other than the fact that those gay people can get married legally.
And, as for me equating a “choice” with a disability, I did not equate the two. What I did was parallel the two in the fact that tolerance (as far as the differences between people) is necessary to prevent discrimination. In that sense, they are alike. Discrimination is discrimination, not matter what face the perpurtrators try to paint on it.
And lastly, there is supposed to be a seperation of church and state. The points you brought up “preserving traditional marriage and religious freedom” are moral values rooted in religious principles. They have nothing to do with the laws that citizens are governed by. The fact that you people are trying to force your religious principles upon the citizens of this state through legislation is in itself criminal.
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alaina Reply:
November 15th, 2008 at 8:41 am
Can you choose the color of your skin? Of course not. Can you choose who you have sex with. YES! And not to mention a “tolerated” lifestyle ushered into “acceptance” as “normal” comes with the expectation that people are free to promote that lifestyle as “normal.” Of course it will be taught in schools! And when it is offered as a CHOICE to young, impressionable children, some of them will CHOOSE said lifestyle for a variety of reasons, hence disproving your whole premise that homosexuality is never a choice! An entire generation of children will be thrown into complete sexual confusion and turmoil when same-sex marriage passes. I bet my life on it. Civil Unions were the compromise that you refuse to accept.
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Chase Reply:
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:25 am
So you COULD care less? That means you DO care.
By the way, this article is ridiculous. They say they prove the yes on 8 side wrong, but the fact remains, unless the 96% of schools that currently teach sex ed in school STOP teaching sex ed, then yes, it will be taught in school.
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jacob Reply:
May 29th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
How do you know it’s a choice? Last i recall, there was never a conclusion that it’s a choice. Or are you just saying that just cause you have no idea? Be serious, a kid is going to know right away if they like the opposite sex vs the same. it’s just that society’s judement makes them feel confused. there’s really no confusion about it. you either are or not. For those young ppl who “CHOOSE” to be gay,as you claim, and aren’t really, then I have to wonder what’s truely going on in his/her family circle to cause such lack of self-worth, to not be able talk about this with his/her parents.
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Felisha Davis Reply:
December 10th, 2009 at 4:44 am
Not all gays choose to be gay! People do not understand this fact! You cannot always choose to be attracted to someone. Did you choose to fall inlove with the person you are in love with? I doubt it! People can’t control their emotions. No one knows this fact better than gays ourselves. Yes, I said ourselves. You do not choose who you fall for. And its not about falling in love with a man or a woman, its about falling for who the person is. You could find the person with all the characteristics and habits you have dreamed of and that person may just be the same sex as you!
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I was voting against prop 8 until I read things like this and what is being said. I do think this will change teaching in the schools. When my daughter had “sex-Ed” in her science class about 9 years ago they were told that soon they will be able to teach them all kinds of sex. I found that to be crossing the lines. I think we need to get back to letting the parents teach this and I am concerned that as a parent I am loosing some of my rights as a parent. Yes, you can opt out of the class period, but to do a very difficult assignment not even related to the subject. Also, there is peer pressure and name calling to those who do opt out. It is reverse discrimination.
Also, the kindergarten wedding did happen in my neighborhood. There were only 3 parents who were really behind it. The rest came because they didn’t want their children there alone, not because they were in support. There was also a lot of pressure to attend. One little boy was not going to go because of other activities, but life was made so miserable for the little boy by other children calling him a bigot. Can you believe it?
I had never heard this word used the no on prop 8 people started using it so much. I am truly wondering if we are going the wrong way. The no people appear to think they are so high and mighty that they can judge others. Remember when you point a finger at others, that you are pointing 3 right back at yourself.
I had already filled out my ballot to vote no on prop 8, but I am going to go to the polls on the day of voting and make my vote in person to vote yes.
I have never seen such ignorant, nasty comments from people before this. And it has all come from the no side. I now see that if this does not pass, that schools will continue to take the rights of parents away and there will be discrimination for Christian thoughts of any kind.
Thank you for making me see the light.
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I am so grateful that I chose to stand up for my beliefs….and share my thoughts on this blog. Because of that…and the other messages that were said a no vote was changed to yes. I’m so grateful to see that our children’s future is important to others….
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GeorginaD Reply:
October 30th, 2008 at 5:07 am
Amen to that Tracy J! and God Bless You ‘K’ for changing your vote to a YES!!! =) it is sad to see so much ignorance…. People need to educate themselves about this issue before they decide to start ‘attacking’ people. Just because they watch the commercials on the ‘no on 8′ and actually believe everything they say doesn’t mean you cannot find out what the facts really are… this is such an important issue… We are not taking away the rights of gay people….California law ensures that all same-sex domestic partners currently receive all of the same rights as married couples. This Prop will not change that! We are not fighting against gays. We are fighting for religious freedom, free speech and the right to raise our children as we see fit!!!!
Vote “YES” ON PROPOSITION 8!
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Jill Reply:
October 30th, 2008 at 6:37 am
Oh, I am so exhausted from my epic post below, but I feel I must reply to Georgina! Prop 8 would most certainly take our rights away!!! Talk about finding out about the facts! Same-sex domestic partners most certainly do NOT have the same rights as married couples! Even if we did, separate but equal is NOT equal! And how is the fact that you don’t want my kids to hear about how some kids have ‘2 mommies or daddies’ practicing free speech??? It’s just the opposite of that! You don’t want my kids to hear about their reality! (again – not that prop 8 has anything to do w this) It’s amazing how the non-oppressed group can turn this issue around and make it sound like they’re the ones being oppressed! Just amazing…
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Jill Reply:
October 30th, 2008 at 6:17 am
Tracy – … unless that child turns into a gay adult, in which case his or her future isn’t important to you at all, right?
It truly makes me so sad to hear your and K’s reasoning that it’s ok to treat a sizable part of our population like second-class citizens because they’re petrified that little Johnny or Suzy might hear that there are families among us that are – gasp – DIFFERENT than theirs. How is wanting to take away rights of people you don’t agree with being a good Christian???
And K, I can see how upset it makes you when you feel that your rights as a parent are being taken away – I would be upset by that, too! And i KNOW what it’s like to have my rights taken away. But this has nothing whatsoever to do with Prop 8. “There’s nothing about Proposition 8 that is connected to public education in any way,” says California board of education president Ted Mitchell. Who else do you need to hear this from? If you’re upset by perceived changes to your child’s curriculum, well, voting yes on 8 isn’t going to help one bit.
Tracy – You say you’re ‘grateful to see that our children’s future is important to others’. Well, I ask you – what about the future of the children who grow up with 2 parents of the same sex? What about their future in a society who doesn’t give the same protections to their parents (and therefore, the same protections to them) that their friend’s parents have? What about the kids who grow up in a school system so afraid to recognize that there are plenty of loving families headed by 2 moms or dads, what kind of role models are we to those kids when we blatantly ignore their existence? (and again, nothing in Prop 8 affects school curriculum)
No on 8 people are ‘high and mighty’?? WE’re the ones who are judging others?? I strongly disagree. We’re the ones who are fighting to be seen and treated as equals by the ones who – quite literally – judge US! If in the course of that fight, we come off as high and mighty to you, please forgive us. It really hurts to be discriminated against on a daily basis for who we fall in love with. Please try to imagine what that would be like. It gets exhausting, and if our manners slip sometimes and the word ‘bigot’ comes out, well, let’s look at the definition of that word… “a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.” Tracy – you yourself said you were uncomfortable with schools teaching ‘tolerance’ of beliefs different to the ones you have. Seems like a big part of the definition, doesn’t it?
Look, we truly believe we’re being treated unfairly and I know it’s just a matter of time before you and other people who today want to limit our rights realize that, too.
K, I hope you will rethink your change of heart, say NO to discrimination and vote No on Prop 8.
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Johnny California Reply:
October 30th, 2008 at 7:31 am
We here at Johnny California hope that everyone on *both* sides of the Prop. 8 issue ask themselves whether they will care as much about education on November 5 as they do now. Please seriously think about that question.
How truly concerned are you about the quality of your child’s education? No matter what side of Prop. 8 you’re on, how are we going to deal with the horrendous problems facing our education system?
California is one of the ten largest economies in the world, yet our 4th graders are 49th in the country in reading ,49th in math and second-to-last in science. 24% of all California high school students drop out, this is an 83% increase since 2001. Today, Gov. Schwarzenegger announced “immediate cuts in the range of $2 to $4 billion to the state education budget.”
So in these last days before the election, we encourage all voters, on both sides of 8, to do a gut-check. We encourage voters to ask themselves if they are truly fired up about education? Or is everyone fired up about Prop. 8 and using education as a straw-man argument to push their agenda?
The issue is not whether our kids are learning about same sex marriage or learning about tolerance. The issue is whether our kids are learning anything at all.
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Felisha Davis Reply:
December 10th, 2009 at 4:50 am
A NO vote was changed to yes? Our childrens future is important to us? Your children could end up being gay and your yes vote will only hurt them. You will be taking away your own childs rights!
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Will a Prop. 8 opponent please EXPLICITLY state the LEGAL rights, privileges, and protections that a homosexual couple may receive with a marriage certificate that they are denied under a civil union. Please respond by CITING official legal documents, otherwise your answer WILL NOT be taken seriously.
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Tolerance, diversity, sensibility and acceptance are 4 big words. Can these virtues be forced onto everyone? I do not believe we are born equal, if we are, life will be utterly boring. We are all different from one another that is what makes life interesting.
No on force, no on distortion, YES ON 8.
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Jill Reply:
November 4th, 2008 at 4:17 am
Sam, I take it you’re not black or a woman, or in an inter-racial marriage, right? Because if tolerance weren’t ‘forced’ on society throughout the past hundred years, only straight white men would be considered first-class citizens. If that’s how you feel, then I just feel terribly sorry for you.
Taking AWAY the rights of couples is force.
Saying that a No on 8 will make schools change their curriculum is distortion.
No on HATE. NO ON 8.
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So what about this gay kindergarten teacher in San Fransisco who took her class to her own gay wedding? She obviously did not have permission from all the kids’ parents or we wouldn’t have heard about it. Of course they will teach it in schools! And they’re hoping parents are too busy to notice!!!
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traci Reply:
January 11th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
alaina,
are you serious? do you think a school would let the kids off of the property without a signed permission slip from their parents? Two families did deny their children permission to go. The field trip was also not the idea of the teacher, it belonged to a parent.
And technically speaking teachers ALREADY have the right to teach kids about domestic partnership & civil unions (CA education code 51933 item (7) of subdivision (b) reads “instruction and materials shall teach respect for marriage and committed relationships.” The definition of committed relationship includes courtship, engagement, marriage, and yes, civil unions. And it seems to me that the subject of civil unions isn’t taught on a regular cirriculum now is it.
It’s amazing how ignorant most people are!
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Why are people so worried about their children when marriage isn’t thought at school?
Schools are only required to talk about marriage if the decide to teach sexual education. Also when the schools or districts or schools decide to teach sex ed., they ,must meet the standards and instructions taught for gay marriage and relatinships. Parents have the right to know what is going to be taught and the schools always let the quardian know by giving out permission slips.
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Chase Reply:
April 22nd, 2009 at 5:28 am
“when marriage isn’t thought at school?” Are you kidding? Sex ed is taught in 96% of CA schools. Unless ALL of those schools stop teaching sex ed, it WILL be taught in CA schools.
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