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	<title>Comments on: Prop 8 Lawsuit Explanation For Non-Lawyers: An Unbiased-and-Simple-As-Possible Explanation of the Prop 8 Lawsuits for Non-Lawyers.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://johnnycalifornia.com/2008/11/08/prop-8-lawsuit-explanation-for-non-lawyers-an-unbiased-and-simple-as-possible-explanation-of-the-prop-8-lawsuits-for-non-lawyers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://johnnycalifornia.com/2008/11/08/prop-8-lawsuit-explanation-for-non-lawyers-an-unbiased-and-simple-as-possible-explanation-of-the-prop-8-lawsuits-for-non-lawyers/</link>
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		<title>By: Misken</title>
		<link>http://johnnycalifornia.com/2008/11/08/prop-8-lawsuit-explanation-for-non-lawyers-an-unbiased-and-simple-as-possible-explanation-of-the-prop-8-lawsuits-for-non-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-798</link>
		<dc:creator>Misken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 07:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnnycalifornia.com/?p=1313#comment-798</guid>
		<description>Thanks for writing this! I figured out many important things that I couldn&#039;t find anywhere else (like who this Horton figure was). Keep up the great work! 

(btw, California&#039;s Supreme Court website says that Tyler sued California, the state, not Horton.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for writing this! I figured out many important things that I couldn&#8217;t find anywhere else (like who this Horton figure was). Keep up the great work! </p>
<p>(btw, California&#8217;s Supreme Court website says that Tyler sued California, the state, not Horton.</p>
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		<title>By: Chesley</title>
		<link>http://johnnycalifornia.com/2008/11/08/prop-8-lawsuit-explanation-for-non-lawyers-an-unbiased-and-simple-as-possible-explanation-of-the-prop-8-lawsuits-for-non-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-739</link>
		<dc:creator>Chesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnnycalifornia.com/?p=1313#comment-739</guid>
		<description>SilverFox... I think you have said it in words that are truly what this is all about. I tend to get passionate and angry and flare up in tears over the whole subject. But I am sure that is true for anyone who has to defend their own honor.

Great words, and thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SilverFox&#8230; I think you have said it in words that are truly what this is all about. I tend to get passionate and angry and flare up in tears over the whole subject. But I am sure that is true for anyone who has to defend their own honor.</p>
<p>Great words, and thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: SilverFox</title>
		<link>http://johnnycalifornia.com/2008/11/08/prop-8-lawsuit-explanation-for-non-lawyers-an-unbiased-and-simple-as-possible-explanation-of-the-prop-8-lawsuits-for-non-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-735</link>
		<dc:creator>SilverFox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnnycalifornia.com/?p=1313#comment-735</guid>
		<description>William--

Interesting that you view being gay as a &quot;lifestyle.&quot; &quot;Lifestyle&quot; implies that being gay results from choosing to be gay. Do you have any evidence to support your implication, or just supposition or moral values? If so, I&#039;d be glad to consider the evidence, as long as it&#039;s not based on religious belief and not the trite old saw that &quot;some people successfully resist homosexual urges,&quot; which is not evidence as to why those people have homosexual urges in the first place, only that they refuse to acknowledge to themselves and others that they are either homosexual or bi-sexual.

Do you seriously believe that homosexuals deliberately choose a &quot;lifestyle&quot; that they know will produce revulsion in many straight people and will result in discrimination by those straight people against them? Most people crave approval and acceptance. So why would homosexuals deliberately choose a &quot;lifestyle&quot; known to produce exactly the opposite result? Doesn&#039;t make sense to me. What makes sense to me is that homosexuals don&#039;t choose to be homosexuals but rather don&#039;t have any choice about being attracted to members of the same sex instead of the opposite sex. I didn&#039;t make a choice to be straight; as a male, I always was attracted to females. But I&#039;m glad of that, because it&#039;s hard enough coping with life sometimes without having to deal with all the additional stress and grief that being gay would produce.

I believe in the Golden Rule. If you do too, try imagining yourself in the &quot;shoes&quot; of a gay person. (I apologize if this seems patronizing.) Imagine how you would feel about being treated the way straight people treat homosexuals. The power to imaginatively experience another’s feelings is, of course, empathy. Can you honestly say you can empathize with people who are different from you, including minorities, which of course includes homosexuals? Empathy is different from approval--you don&#039;t have to approve to understand. But if you can truly understand, you may not feel compelled to act upon your disapproval; you may be able to live and let live.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William&#8211;</p>
<p>Interesting that you view being gay as a &#8220;lifestyle.&#8221; &#8220;Lifestyle&#8221; implies that being gay results from choosing to be gay. Do you have any evidence to support your implication, or just supposition or moral values? If so, I&#8217;d be glad to consider the evidence, as long as it&#8217;s not based on religious belief and not the trite old saw that &#8220;some people successfully resist homosexual urges,&#8221; which is not evidence as to why those people have homosexual urges in the first place, only that they refuse to acknowledge to themselves and others that they are either homosexual or bi-sexual.</p>
<p>Do you seriously believe that homosexuals deliberately choose a &#8220;lifestyle&#8221; that they know will produce revulsion in many straight people and will result in discrimination by those straight people against them? Most people crave approval and acceptance. So why would homosexuals deliberately choose a &#8220;lifestyle&#8221; known to produce exactly the opposite result? Doesn&#8217;t make sense to me. What makes sense to me is that homosexuals don&#8217;t choose to be homosexuals but rather don&#8217;t have any choice about being attracted to members of the same sex instead of the opposite sex. I didn&#8217;t make a choice to be straight; as a male, I always was attracted to females. But I&#8217;m glad of that, because it&#8217;s hard enough coping with life sometimes without having to deal with all the additional stress and grief that being gay would produce.</p>
<p>I believe in the Golden Rule. If you do too, try imagining yourself in the &#8220;shoes&#8221; of a gay person. (I apologize if this seems patronizing.) Imagine how you would feel about being treated the way straight people treat homosexuals. The power to imaginatively experience another’s feelings is, of course, empathy. Can you honestly say you can empathize with people who are different from you, including minorities, which of course includes homosexuals? Empathy is different from approval&#8211;you don&#8217;t have to approve to understand. But if you can truly understand, you may not feel compelled to act upon your disapproval; you may be able to live and let live.</p>
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		<title>By: Markw</title>
		<link>http://johnnycalifornia.com/2008/11/08/prop-8-lawsuit-explanation-for-non-lawyers-an-unbiased-and-simple-as-possible-explanation-of-the-prop-8-lawsuits-for-non-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-676</link>
		<dc:creator>Markw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 20:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnnycalifornia.com/?p=1313#comment-676</guid>
		<description>Ali, your issues with gays being parents and raising children really has nothing to do with Prop 8 or legalizing gay marriage.  Gays already have the right and are parents in California under domestic partership laws, and Prop 8 wouldn&#039;t have changed that one way or the other.  Move on to the real reason your against gays being married:  bigotry and hate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ali, your issues with gays being parents and raising children really has nothing to do with Prop 8 or legalizing gay marriage.  Gays already have the right and are parents in California under domestic partership laws, and Prop 8 wouldn&#8217;t have changed that one way or the other.  Move on to the real reason your against gays being married:  bigotry and hate.</p>
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		<title>By: Jasoneye</title>
		<link>http://johnnycalifornia.com/2008/11/08/prop-8-lawsuit-explanation-for-non-lawyers-an-unbiased-and-simple-as-possible-explanation-of-the-prop-8-lawsuits-for-non-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-670</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasoneye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnnycalifornia.com/?p=1313#comment-670</guid>
		<description>Will.... I have read a few of your posts. I keep seeing this reference towards &#039;natural&#039;in them. I hate to tell you but about 10% of humanity is and always has been naturally gay. Children are exposed to gay images all the time, like when I walk down the street holding hands with my boy friend. What would you tell your wide eye&#039;d innocent children? That I&#039;m evil? Disgusting? Deviant? To be voted down? What would you tell my wide eye&#039;d innocent child? Because I tell mine that some people don&#039;t understand how the world really is and they try to make it into something else. Kinda like they want to live in a fairy tale.... a 2500 year old one.Words do have meaning and yours are not based in reality, just in your religion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will&#8230;. I have read a few of your posts. I keep seeing this reference towards &#8216;natural&#8217;in them. I hate to tell you but about 10% of humanity is and always has been naturally gay. Children are exposed to gay images all the time, like when I walk down the street holding hands with my boy friend. What would you tell your wide eye&#8217;d innocent children? That I&#8217;m evil? Disgusting? Deviant? To be voted down? What would you tell my wide eye&#8217;d innocent child? Because I tell mine that some people don&#8217;t understand how the world really is and they try to make it into something else. Kinda like they want to live in a fairy tale&#8230;. a 2500 year old one.Words do have meaning and yours are not based in reality, just in your religion.</p>
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		<title>By: Chesley</title>
		<link>http://johnnycalifornia.com/2008/11/08/prop-8-lawsuit-explanation-for-non-lawyers-an-unbiased-and-simple-as-possible-explanation-of-the-prop-8-lawsuits-for-non-lawyers/comment-page-1/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator>Chesley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnnycalifornia.com/?p=1313#comment-669</guid>
		<description>William, I find it very interesting how the Christian right have brought children into this whole mix. This isn&#039;t about children. This is about consenting, loving adults sharing their lives together.

But if you want to bring children into this mix, why don&#039;t we talk about Matthew Shepard and how he was murdered for being gay? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

Whether you know it or not, by creating propositions (Prop 8) or Amendments (Colorado Amendment 2) that put a group of people into a lower rights class, you say to children that these people are not worthy of living. Through your actions you are saying that homosexuals are a lower life form and should be squashed like insects. Isn&#039;t that what those boys did to Matthew Shepard?

What have these people done to you? Why does your kind preach love and compassion but not show by example?

You will believe what you will believe and your kind will continue to use puppies and children and everything you can to distort the truth and manipulate the ignorant populace into getting your way.

And as for a lifestyle... this is not a lifestyle. People are born homosexual. PERIOD. Just as they are born Black, Mexican, Chinese, etc.

Do you seriously think I would choose to live my 70+ years on this planet dealing with &quot;Christians&quot; attacking mr from every angle? Get your foot off my throat!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William, I find it very interesting how the Christian right have brought children into this whole mix. This isn&#8217;t about children. This is about consenting, loving adults sharing their lives together.</p>
<p>But if you want to bring children into this mix, why don&#8217;t we talk about Matthew Shepard and how he was murdered for being gay? <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard</a></p>
<p>Whether you know it or not, by creating propositions (Prop <img src='http://johnnycalifornia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> or Amendments (Colorado Amendment 2) that put a group of people into a lower rights class, you say to children that these people are not worthy of living. Through your actions you are saying that homosexuals are a lower life form and should be squashed like insects. Isn&#8217;t that what those boys did to Matthew Shepard?</p>
<p>What have these people done to you? Why does your kind preach love and compassion but not show by example?</p>
<p>You will believe what you will believe and your kind will continue to use puppies and children and everything you can to distort the truth and manipulate the ignorant populace into getting your way.</p>
<p>And as for a lifestyle&#8230; this is not a lifestyle. People are born homosexual. PERIOD. Just as they are born Black, Mexican, Chinese, etc.</p>
<p>Do you seriously think I would choose to live my 70+ years on this planet dealing with &#8220;Christians&#8221; attacking mr from every angle? Get your foot off my throat!</p>
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